what are your thoughts of this manga being made into a new Hollywood movie and getting changes in its story, I don't know if I should think they shouldn't make it because it might ruin the series or something but they already made an anime movie and it honestly sucks when compared to the source material but what can you expect fitting 3000+ pages into two hours is not possible.

so Hollywood making the movie in two parts what can be expected that will happen will it be better will it suck I don't really know but I definitely want to see what might happen

here is a complaint I read that I thought was a good one

it is downright offensive that Hollywood is even getting to touch Akira. Otomo's Masterpiece is a metaphor for the rebirth of the Japanese visual mindset post atomic bomb. Bringing the story into an American setting completely takes it out of context. Leo, I used to think you were an okay guy, but if you bring this movie into fruition you deserve to burn in hell for stealing a beautiful piece of Japanese contemporary art.

what I think someone should do is an AKIRA anime in which they stick completely to the source material

I thought the movie was enjoyable, but it was probably one of the first japanimation features I've seen. But yea, like you said, the manga is over 6 hefty volumes. The method of most potential would probably be to make a series which is just as long. I just really hate it when things seem forced or rushed in screen adaptations due to time constraints.

I agree and that was the problem in AKIRA, if you did read the manga on which the movie is based on youll be like wtf, the movie is so confusing and incomplete that you cant understand whats going on, I just dont get it its called AKIRA and in the movie he isnt a character well he is but dead organs and its just a big mess.

i dont tinhk it matters if you read the manga or not, the animated feature was confusing regardless. Im always cautious about hollywood renditions of anything and especially something that is so culturally specific as Akira. Resetting the film out of its postwar anxiety-ridden Tokyo to that of NY takes the whole thing out of context.

..sort of how the V for Vendetta film tried to turn the source material to swing towards contemporary American liberal concerns when it was specifically addressing the political reign of margaret thatcher back In Moore's home country.

on that note, from Moore's own words:

"[The movie] has been "turned into a Bush-era parable by people too timid to set a political satire in their own country… It's a thwarted and frustrated and largely impotent American liberal fantasy of someone with American liberal values standing up against a state run by neoconservatives—which is not what the comic V for Vendetta was about. It was about fascism, it was about anarchy, it was about England."

Ok this is something I'm really curious about, sort of in the same way that I was wondering why EVA became such a classic (definitely felt like after the discussion on IN that it was popular 'cause it was unique for the time that came in - a context thing. Why is Akira also considered such a classic? I've heard of it and I think I read one of the manga volumes in an anime/manga class that I audited for a while. I also watched a little bit of the film, but I honestly couldn't get into it. I mean this is an anime film that even my non-anime watching or liking boyfriend has heard of AND watched before we started going out and I tried/failed to get him hooked on some of my favorite shows. Not sure if he liked it, but he definitely heard of it. What am I missing here... if it's possible to explain with as few spoilers as possible xD; I like to think of classics as something that speaks to people through different time periods so to speak but this one hasn't really grabbed me.

*Checks out wiki*

I think from a completely cultural and technical standpoiint, Akira has become a classic in some people's eyes at least here in the West as it was one of the first films to really bring a great deal of exposure to the medium.  In this regard, it has nothing to do with it being a great film cause its not, if anything its pretty fucking horrible but one cannot deny how well animated it was, and how different or new it must have seemed to more mainstream audiences stateside.

In regards to the manga, if you've read the whole thing and know a thing or two about the various concerns that have arisen in Japan since and around when the economic bubble burst, then I cannot see how anyone could not conisder said manga a classic.  If you have read only a small bit of it, then yea, its not really a fair gauge.

 

You know if anything though, asking people why something is considered a classic is kind of problematic.  The main issue being, as this isn't an academic discourse, I imagine most if not all people define "classic" in very different terms.  I mean especially for something like anime and given the setting this is being asked, most people would consider a classic something that has alot of weight on a personal/individual level rather then trying to put the work in both a historical and technical context.  Historical in that how the said work holds up to the long line of other works in its medium and why if at all, it should stand out culturally, socially, politicaly, etc..  And a purely technical standpoint, on how well the film was made, but more so on how innovative it was to the genre or medium.

The whole thing kind of reminds me of this one question posed on this Asian cinema forum I used to frequent.  The question went like this: Citizen Kane which is by mass agreement the most important film ever made to date by the academic and critic community is or is not rightly a classic?  What should have been a relatively easy answer proved for this community to be one that wasn't, especially given that the majority of them seemed to have no real film studies knowledge nor judged films objectively.  The arguments went back and forth trying to justify the film by whether or not the damn thing was "boring", or if they could find some sort of enjoyment in it which completely misses the point.  It doesn't matter if you enjoyed said work as thats never a factor in judging whether or not it should be a classic or part of the canon.  The reason why Kane specifically is seen as the most important film to date is solely because it was the first film to successfully integrate much of the film techniques that had been in experimentation at the time to make what we can consider, the base template for a feature film that has lasted til today.  It wasn't really the first to do anything but it was the first to more or less, successfully utilize certain techniques within the film.

 

So I guess in a very longwinded answer, you won't really know why Akira is a classic unless you ask first, how one defines classic, what/whom even is calling it a classic, and whether or not you even care or agree with the factors being considered.  I mean really, its sort of strange to even ask the question when you didn't even borther to sit through the whole film to judge it.  Because if anything, you should have watched the thing, ans then asked whether or not it should even be considered a classic?  I mean is it?  I've never really considered the film at least more then simply a demonstration of animation capability.  Oh and also, just because non-anime people have heard of it, doesnt make it more a classic.  I say this because more often then not, the things people have heard of in relation to a specific genre are usually "not" the ones that would be shining examples of said group.  To recycle the same example as before, I know that almost 90% of the population probably hasnt even heard of Citizen Kane nor would they have heard of the majority of films that are considered canon within that genre such as Battleship Potemkin or 8 1/2.

Quoting crap:

Not at all. I'm not asking in the sense of "I hated it I don't get why it is considered a classic," I was asking for other people's opinions on why they think it is - and see if I want to revisit it sometime down the line. Or else I obviously would've sat through it. I think you're overanalyzing my question/the classic thing. I meant classic in a very broad sense of something that has great appeal/visibility/notoriety... I pretty much just wanted to hear why people liked the story. I don't completely agree with your comment on enjoyability in judging whether or not something is classic - not only because anime/film is supposed to be "entertainment," but also I think at the end of the day SOMEONE enjoyed those "classics" enough to champion them and write them into the history books. Maybe the enjoyment came from watching that was visually new or innovative in style, whatever, but the judging will always be subjective. Tastes do evolve. You did name two films that most people haven't heard of (although I remember watching part of Potemkin in an European History class), but looking at the lists on wiki there are quite a few that I think most people will have heard of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Films_that_have_been_considered_the_greatest_ever

At the end of the day I'm pretty much just looking to see if I should add something to my long list of things to watch and be entertained in the free time I have :3 And partly as an anime fan have a better sense of what people are getting at when they say "Akira is the shit0rz" or something like that LOL.

Although this did just remind me of some classes I took in uni which involved film, when we start the class discussion it'd usually start out as a rant fest of everything that everyone hated about the film we saw. Then the prof would be like, er, so what did you like about it? And then the class would be like . . . well, I guess this was kinda cool... actually not just film, it's usually like that with book too. Ah, deconstructivism...

You specifically stated that you had read a little of the manga and a bit of the film and then said "I honestly couldn't get into it". If that isn't a judgement I don't know what is. Sure its not expressing adamant hatred but its still a judgement and assumption regardless even to a small degree.



And if you choose to use classic in the way your choosing, then you are already reiterating what I pointed out about the problem of definition of classic. If you just wanted to hear and know about the story why even bother with film? Its a visual medium as much as it is literary and musical. I mean if story was the most important aspect of film and why your asking about Akira, a wiki article could suffice.



You know, I don't think the assumption that anime/film is supposed to be entertainment is true at all. On a commercial level, yea everything Hollywood or any studio system makes is meant to be entertaining to bring in a revenue. But theres a fuckload of films out there that are the complete opposite. Take for example Maya Deren's Meshes of the Afternoon or even something like Warhol's Empire. I'm not saying good films are not entertaining, but usually there actually is a direct correlation. Well made films are typically enjoyable directly because they are well constructed. What I'm pointing out is that most if not all people judge films solely on the question of "how much 'I' enjoyed it?" Not, I enjoy said film because I find it is well made in some fashion or another. I guess a good final and contemporary example of the question of enjoyment can be seen in films such as Kim Ki Duk's Bad Guy, or even something more Hollywood such as Schindler's List. On a general basis, would people consider these films "entertainment", personally I would think not unless you have some sort of sadomasochistic mindset.



And yes, theres always a degree of subjectivity and tastes do change. But in regards to the logic behind what has been considered film canon since its inception, there has been little to no change. Every decade or so, they do an update and the top 10 does shift around a little. Given this, Citizen Kane has never left the top position and on a trend, most of the films have stayed relatively the same. Sure, Rashomon might be up there instead of Seven Samurai, but a Kurosawa film always makes it up there. So in regards to "tastes", for the consumer masses it does change, for those actually in the industry and in academia, it doesn't really. Also that wiki list if anything I think, reinforces what I said prior. Sure theres a few in there that (I hope) people have heard of such as Vertigo and 2001, but the "majority" I'm sure will recieve blank faces.





You say at the end its really about entertainment for you personally. If thats the case, why does it matter if its considered a classic? Given that most of the anime fanbase is made up of adolescent teens and generally those uneducated within the medium, there opinion about what is classic should be approached with caution I imagine. Take for example what people on a normal basis think are the best films and how much that drastically differs from what those in the field think. The top ten comparison on that wiki article you linked is a great example of this.



Your point about negative criticism as well I find is a generalization. It seems to me that your linking "some classes I took in uni which involved film" to a more general statement about film criticism as a whole. Were these classes "film" classes, or just involving film? I ask because although Im only a film studies minor, I've never been in a film class that had a discourse the way you described. If anything, it was the complete opposite. Sure we discussed what may be wrong with a certain film, but by far most of the discussion was on what had been done well.



You know at the end of the day I feel the same way as you in regards to often times then not, simply wanting entertainment. I just find that the word classic usually refers more to notions of technicality more so then a personal enjoyment. I think if anything, the better terminology you could have used was why people simply liked Akira so much? Its sort of like the divide or difference between what one thinks is the best film, and what one considers their favorite film.

Anyways, good debate flyin....

Yep, it's fun to disagree :3

I did say I couldn't get into Akira (film), but it definitely wasn't meant to express any definite judgment which was why I prefaced it by saying I didn't finish it. A lot of times it's circumstantial too. I remember watching the first episode of Gurrenn Lagann and not liking it very much. Then I watched it again months later on a lazy weekend or whatever, and ended up thinking it was pretty neat. So there are loads of things I can't get into, but often if I hear about it so much I will ultimately give it a shot at its entirety. Entertainment value is big, but it's not just cheap thrills. I do think there are quite a few films which people watch and say "I enjoyed it because it was well made." Kurosawa's Dreams would be one of those for me. Yeah it wouldn't necessarily be on the same level as academics definition of well-made, but I think there are films where the general audience can appreciate how well something is made. We are really using the word "films" differently though - I definitely have a much narrower definition of "films" in mind, whereas you're thinking of it more as a genre as a whole.

The other thing is, film is still a relatively "new" medium if you think about it. I'll bet you in a hundred years that classics list will change even *gasp* in the industry/academia. And it might include more films that we would recognize today, simply because it takes time to put art/films in the proper context. On that greatest list the Godfather is the most recent one - 1972! I'm going to venture that that's going to be the one most people have heard of/watched on that list. I took several modern history courses and loved how one of my profs stressed that the term itself is a bit of a paradox. History evolves with new batches of people writing it and the canon will evolve over time too.

And of course the negative criticism is a generalization - it wasn't meant to be read as a "this is what happened all the time" statement, I can give tons of examples to the contrary but I doubt people are looking for an essay on "many class discussions I remember starting out negatively. But there were x y and z classes where people were really positive in their discussion" ROFL. I didn't mean "this" as in film criticism, I meant "this" as in this thread. Probably because you and I started out with negative-leaning comments about Akira (film). I've always thought that people generally prefer bashing because it's easier and they feel like they sound smart when pointing out holes in author's arguments. That's sort of the cynicism in me coming out, but no it was not an every day occurrence. That does mostly apply to non-film classes since I was IR - several of my history courses were cross-listed with MCM, and the anime/manga class was a MCM seminar. Some of the cross-listed ones were more MCM than history, but in general I will admit I vastly preferred the history/MCM as opposed to straight up MCM, because once we got into the film theory portion for the anime/manga class it was just completely over my head XD

To sort of tie it back though - regardless of the argument over semantics haha, I'm still curious about Akira as a "classic." Maybe it's not something that I'll enjoy because of a difference in personal taste, although I do want to know why people liked Akira so much. Will it still be something that makes me a more "informed" fan, will it give me greater appreciation of other series with similar themes? If yes, then it's worth at least a place in my Netflix queue.