Starting this thread because I finally just finished EVA, courtesy of Netflix, and... ok so I know a lot of people like it (or are purported to like it), so I wanna ask why. Needless to say the question probably indicates that I'm not a huge fan. I don't necessarily HATE it either, but maybe I just wasn't feeling the emo-ness (or at this stage in my life I'm experiencing different emo-ness than what the show was fixated on)... and I felt like the last disc / three episodes I pretty much just got preached at for an hour. Definitely feel like the popularity of EVA kinda encourages most new anime series to stick in at least one episode to mess with your mind and attempt to be deep and philosophical.

I guess some of my reaction right now is based a lot off of what I expect anime to be - good entertainment driven by good plot. Not to say that I didn't enjoy series like Mushishi or Kino no Tabi which ponder a lot more than the usual, but still I'd say those series are very story-driven. Definitely I'm not looking for metanarratives when I watch anime so at least in this regard I can understand why ppl say EVA is a classic. Definitely gave me some interesting things to think about... doesn't mean that I like the series though, although I still have to watch the End of Evangelion. I heard that was another major attempt to screw minds lol - and I'm going to get it soon, so don't spoil the movie for me please. Still really curious to hear what you guys thought about this series though - especially if you liked it, 'cause I'm trying to get a better handle on why it's so popular x]

Sort of agree with you actually, despite whether it does have merit or not I always thought it was sort of a bandwagon thing, where everyone just jumped on it spewing out how great it was.

But on that note, there are definitely factors in it that do make it highly significant. In terms of serialized anime/manga its really only considered a classic for one reason. For better or worse like you said, it pretty much set a trend and was the first in a long ass line of animes that tried to be more then simply cheap entertainment. But by first, it wasn't the first, only that it was the first to meet widespread success and acclaim. Some what like Citizen Kane actually and the medium of film. It wasn't the first film to use such devices as dramatic lighting, tracking shots, and many other conventional film devices, but it was indeed the first to utilize all of it in a successful and cohesive manner.

The sad thing about this show though is that 99% of the people who obsess over it just don't get it. I remember back in highschool when this was popular, Id ask fans why it was so great cause I just didn't see why. They would try to convince me it was "deep" and dealt with Christianity and God, to which....was completely false and obviously only a surface element.

My own opinion honestly is that EVA isn't really all that philosophical at. Theres many recursive themes throughout but most of them I find are more cultural and actually not all that unique to this particular show. The first and foremost motif is that of an "end of the world" or apocalyptic scenario which is highly recursive in much of anime. I actually read a few papers on this exact topic and most scholars deduced this to an on-screen suicide which reflected most explicitly, postwar anxieties mainly centered on the failure of the Japanese government and the subsequent atomic bombing. The more apparent connection though is that of a disillusionment with the progression of Japanese society, mainly after the bubble economy burst. I wont get into it but, theres a strong connection between this and many individualistic dilemmas such as disillusionment with the state-endorsed vision of the "correct" life.

This being, nuclear family units made up of a working dad, domestic wife, and an a large emphasis on the male son. Sounds standard yea, but theres alot of problems that are emerging, one being the female population in the current generation is obviously not buying into this subjugation. Thus alot are choosing not to marry and instead stay independent becoming makeinus. Essentially independent women who choose to work themsevles and simply self indulge, rather then essentially becoming a "household" slave. Thus this leads to the obvious problem of a reproduction rate falling well below the level to maintain the population. Then on the otherside you have salarymen who work 24/7 in zaibatsus who never come home. This is mainly attributed to the tradition of working at night, which is essentially male-colleague bonding which consists of getting drunk off your ass. So in the end, Japan is faced with a decling birth rate = declining population, disillusionment on many levels, and a complete breakdown of social/familial relationships. Basically, society is completely on the downslope and a highly conservative leadership is not adapting to these new dilemmas (sound familiar?).

So what do you get? in Evangelion, you literally get the end of the world, but what is significant is that by the end of the film, the world is sort of "reset". Thus one could say that Japan as a society needs to completely restructure themselves to meet the changing global and native climate. If you look simply at the characters, you really get a general sense of social failure. Most of the characters cannot successfully socialize well, and by end most are either batshit crazy or dead. Think of the long long sequences like of characters in the elevator not speaking a single word to each other. Also in addition long sequences of purely noise and zero dialogue like say on a train really evoke this sense of urban isolation and loss of socialization. On the character side, you have Shinji the son, who is met with large expectations to succeed and do well, and his incompetent father who is never there for him. The absence of a maternal figure in additon, could furthermore be seen as a complete breakdown of the family system.

You can take this further and say the family is just a microcosm for all of Japan. In postwar period, ideologically the Emperor was restructured from being a God in the Taisho, to now a father figure. If anyone is familiar with the royal family at all, you know how much they play up how the Emperor's family is the model family. This is interesting, cause if anyone knows its complete rubbish and their family is one of the most unstable out there.


Anyways, I dont even know if any of that made sense its all rambling. so yea, I dont even know if half of what I said is cohesive, probably not....
Al I have to say in the end is I've seen better attempts then this, some which completely predate this. Akira is a great example. It handled the whole generational divide alot better

I enjoyed Eva...when it came out. I think if I were to pick it up now, I probably wouldn't finish it.

At the time (early high school), I enjoyed the fact that the show made me consider things that other anime hadn't (I missed Akira until much later). The last few episodes of Eva were not meant to be from what I remember. The show's funding was pulled after the "sex" scene between Misato and Kaji, so GAINAX just threw something together because they had to. The REAL intended ending of the show comes with the movie. Anyone know if I'm remembering correctly?

There were always aspects that I didn't like: the recurring mainly pointless "angel" battles, the sequences without dialog, the slow progression of the characters. I have my own theories about the show's "ending," but I'd rather not spoil it for you since it involves the movie.

And Crap, I think a lot of what you hit upon is dead on, and was actually a lot of why I enjoyed the show: the commentary on the breakdown of the family unit. The characters really are a reflection of an inability to socialize. Your comment about the loss of maternal figures causing a complete breakdown is right on I think. It's no coincidence that all three main children, Shinji, Asuka, and Rei, all have no mother. In fact, I think you could make a solid argument that all three of them are merely searching for their mothers throughout the show.

I didnt consider it til now buth just recalled a discussion I had in a film class way back around AI. Anyways, both in that and here in Eva, theres sort of an incestual Oedipal symptom going on. I dont really know what it implies but from what I remember, Rei served really dualistic roles. To Gendo, Rei is seen both as a replacement for his deceased wife, and as a replacement to his failure of a son Shinji. In this way, shes both a daughter and wife figure to him. Furthermore, his strangely obsessive attraction towards her seems to exceed the simply platonic. Shinji on the other hand, it could possibly be argued that Rei is a maternal replacement. I forget where, but I remember at some point the relationship between the two seemed to have a more sexual context to it. The following excerpt off of wiki:
At this point, Rei realizes that she "wants to become one with Shinji," and self-destructs her Eva to kill the Angel and save Shinji.
This can be seen as both a maternal action in addition to a sexual connotation. To a lesser extent Misato also serves this dualistic relationship with Shinji as well. The attraction of Shinji to Misato is obvious, but her actual role seems more as one of a mother.

You know, the whole motif of maternalism though is somewhat strange. On the one hand, I guess it could be seen as an agreement to domesticity, but on the other it could be the exact opposite. It could actually be a critique of the whole gender unbalance. If you tihnk about it, within the younger generation of the characters, the males are wholly seen as weak and inactive, while the females are seen as more active and agressive. Im simply thinking of Shinji vs. Asuka/Misato here in regards to this gender power dynamic.

I jsut took a quick look at the wiki entry for Eva right now, and they have a pretty good section on some of the references. Its not great, but definitely worth a look. Heres some of the articles linked there and a few others I think may be interesting to others:
Hedgehog's Dilemma:

's_dilemma
Oedipus Complex:


Freeter:

#Causes
Hikikomori:


Simulacra and Simulation:

I agree definitely that the show deals with the motif of maternalism, but I think I saw it in a slightly different way. I definitely can see the interpretation you're talking about, but I think that at the time I was watching I interpreted it as not as much a comment on domesticity, but as a comment on the effects of absence of the mother figure. In other words, not that the show was critiquing gender imbalance (which, I love your comment about the male vs. female characters in the show), but that the show was displaying the negative impact that the lack of a maternal figure can create on the motherless children. One thing I remember from the show was that the only children who were able to pilot the Evas had to be motherless. In my mind, this is most obvious with Asuka's character and her search for her mother.

Remake of a remake... I guess NGE will get remade into eternity ;D

It kinda feels like they're trying to squeeze every last drop of juice from an already-dry lemon, you know?